The Story of Entreprenuer Yaro Starak & His $30,000 Lesson – Episode #12

by Richard Wilson on May 15, 2011

Yaro Starak

Within Episode #12 Richard Wilson interviews serial entrepreneur Yaro Starak about his experiences in starting, running, and selling businesses.

If you have not heard of Yaro before, check out his blog Entrepreneur’s Journey where he openly shares his experiences as a business owner and marketer.

Within this interview Richard digs into exactly what Yaro’s focus has been while building businesses, and how he has been able to pull of his success without the constraints of an physical office or full time employees.

This audio interview finishes with a somewhat ironic suggestion from Yaro that is worth $30,000, it is something that you can keep in mind and benefit from to help your business make more money. (Download this file in Mp3 format)


Interview Transcript:

Richard Wilson: Hello, this is Richard Wilson of Today, I’m interviewing blogging legend and online business marketing expert, Yaro Starak. Yaro, thank you for completing this interview with us, and we appreciate your time and how busy you probably are. Thanks for joining us today.

Yaro Starak: Thanks Richard. You know, it’s kind of funny, everyone always starts an interviews saying how busy I am, but I’m actually not that busy. I think it’s a default thing to say, but I appreciate taking the time to do this interview.

RW: I’m glad you could. I’ve been following your website for quite some time, and my first question for the interview is somewhat related. I was wondering if, for those who are maybe unfamiliar with your story, you could share a short version of how you found success, and what struggles you went through and the turning point you found that got you to where you are today.

YS: You know, it’s been a long career for me. I’ve been online since 1998, and I’ve never had a full-time job.  I’ve always used some kind of internet business to get by, and then obviously exceed beyond my wildest imaginations. I started in ‘98 at the University of Queensland here in Brisbain Australia where I was given a dial-up internet account and that was just prior of the dotcom boom era. I was an 18 year-old kid, I didn’t really know what I was wanting to do with my life, I was doing a degree because I could, and the dial-up internet account turned out to be the most impactful thing out of my entire university degree because it got me addicted to the internet, and that lead to wanting to start a website, which I did.

I used the Geocities tool to start a card game website devoted to a game I used to play in high school called Magic the Gathering. That site was my first real taste of having some kind of online income stream. I grew it using articles I would write myself and I invited others to write for me, and this was before blogging was mainstream, we’re talking like year 2000 sort of thing. Then I added a forum, and people started trading cards, and I started making about $500 dollars a month in advertising income selling banners and text links to sponsors. That was great.  I didn’t have to get a job when I was in university, and I could use that money to live off; I was also living with my parents at the time, so I didn’t have any expenses. But the dotcom boom was happening around them, and I was really wanting to do something more significant that had much more potential behind it, and I was starting to get bored of that card game; I’d stopped playing some time ago.

So eventually I played around with a few ideas, and I started a proofreading service partially inspired by a gentleman in the United States who had an article editing service specifically for people writing entrance essays to get into college in the United States. That isn’t something we do in Australia, but do have a lot of international students who have English as a second language, so I saw that as a potential to serve their needs and start a business around it. I was really inspired by the eBay model. I’d just recently read this story on eBay and how it got started.  I loved the idea of a many-to-many business, so I could have many customers serviced by many of whatever it is I do, which in my case was editors and proofreaders. I was acting as the middle man, and I could always hire more editors or proofreaders as demand increases and increase my potential to make income, which was a model I really liked.


That business was my first business that I really took on seriously as a proper full-time basis after I graduated from University. It did turn into a full-time income stream for me, and eventually a very low-labor one. I had that business, and after it was 3-4 years old, I had it making a salary for me and I only had do about 2-4 hours of work a week to keep it going because I hired someone to do the admin on a casual basis. So, that was great, it was a really great experience and I learned a lot of things about growing a business, hiring people, and marketing online and offline a bit as well. Those experiences, the card game business, the proofreading business, and I had an English website that didn’t work out very well. I had about 3 or 4 websites I built that I didn’t take anywhere that I was just doing because I was an entrepreneur, and all that led to blogging. I started a blog in 2004 as a marketing tool for that proofreading business, which ended up becoming a bit of failure because the subject of proofreading is really boring, and I wasn’t that interested in writing about it. But I did get very much interested in blogging, and I didn’t know what it was before that. So I started a blog sort of on the side, just as a hobby, Entrepreneurs’ Journey, and I still own it and writing on it every now and then. Since then, January 2005 to the present, has turned into my main business. I’ve sold off all my other businesses, and that’s how I got to where I am.

RW: Yeah, I was wondering, because in our own business, we have contractors like you do, but I remember reading on your website, at least at the time that your bio was last updated, that you really have no full-time employees that are dedicated to working just for you full-time. You have yourself, and have contractors who are maybe experts in different areas that you can use to run your business. Is that still true now, and if it is, how do you make that work? In our business, we have a few full-time employees who do nothing but answer the phone, answer emails, help with admin type work, so I was curious how you made that work in your business.

YS: I’ve still never had a full-time employee, at least at the time that we’re doing this interview in the past 10 years of owning businesses. That’s definitely been deliberate.  A lot of people have said to me that if I want to expand this business, taking on full-time employees would be the way to go, even full-time employees from the Philippines, for example, for $500 a month. I’ve started down that path, but the strange thing about it is that I’ve never really needed it, based mostly on the decisions I’ve made in not trying to grow things to certain levels, like I’ve had the benefit of a few things: choosing very elegant business models that don’t require a lot to maintain. Blogging is a great example: you create your content, and then you derive income from your email list, your advertisers selling your products and affiliates selling similar products. I’ve never needed anyone beyond a customer service person responding to emails just 2 hours a day, which is very casual. She’s a stay-at-home mom, and she’s been with me for many years. We never need to do more than that. My job in all of this has really been a content creator, whether it’s content for a product or content for marketing, like writing the email lists or a free report, whatever it is. The great thing about that is that once I create the content, it’s reusable. Since 2007, I’ve made the majority of my income over the last 4 years, which has been over $1 million dollars, and that’s been without any full-time employees. With that, I never felt I needed to take on any further responsibilities if I’m content with the income I’m making and the life-style I ‘m leading. That being said, I am going through transition periods now and I’m partnering with a few people to do a few different things, but certainly as a blogger, as a trainer teaching information marketing products, and even before that with the card business and proofreading business, none of those required full-time employees, unless I really decided that this was going to be my business and I wanted to take it to the next level and I want to make them seven-figure businesses, and I haven’t really wanted to for the proofreading or card game website. The blogging I have, I certainly have thought that I could create more information products, I could create more blogs, but every time I do it, I just sit down and go, “you know what, I just like writing”. If I could make even a quarter million a year writing a blog, and teaching a few products on an average of two hours a day, I’m not going to rock the boat. I think a lot of people get caught up in getting bigger and making more, but they kind of do it for the sake of getting bigger and making more, or they just get on this treadmill of always wanting this high of making money. I was being more about balancing. What I’m doing, am I enjoying it, what’s my personal goal, plus how much money I’m making, are all motivations. I tend to change motivation every 5 years, which is pretty much why I’m now going through some changes. It’s been more than 5 years that I’ve been a blogger now, so long story short, I just haven’t really needed to, but you could argue that I would be large now if I did.

RW: I think that’s really interesting. I think you describe it yourself as “down to earth marketing and blogging advice”, and I think that’s part of what I connected with. Your videos of you travelling around the world, and giving business advice, you know, is probably one of the ten blogs or types of video modules that help to inspire what I’m trying to do, which is I think that is really smart to start with the end in mind, as Covey says, and kind of design your business around your own specific motivations. There was a DVD by Frank Kern called Core Influence. It’s a great story as well, and is kind of in-line with what you just said: running your business for the goals you have and the income goals and the time structure you have. What’s inspiring about people who need business advice are doing their business building on a part-time basis until they can quit their full-time jobs. I think that’s part of what make s your blog so viral, and why people share it and talk about it with their friends because it’s inspiring and it looks realistic to people. That’s just a small tangent, and just one reason why I personally followed your stuff. My next question is about coming up with new products and services. First you started with the card business, then the proofreading business, and then you grew your blog about business building and marketing. I know you’ve created a few tools and products yourself, so I was wondering what your best advice would be for people looking to come up with a great business idea?  Are you kind of in the mindset of Warren Buffet where you have one good idea per year, or are you, “Ready, Fire, Aim” where you throw 10 things at a wall and you see what sticks?  I’m just curious what your best advice would be here.

YS: I would say closer to Warren Buffet in the sense that I don’t like to have too many wheels spinning, or plates spinning at the same time. And that’s only because I’m so focused on the parts of the business that I enjoy, and I‘ve always enjoyed building something of significance rather than having a hundred sites and a hundred different niches because I’m not interested in those niches, and I’m not interested in building websites on dog training, or whatever. It’s got to be in areas that I’m interested in. That being said, I think the best way to test ideas, and the best way to get feedback, is to put it out there and see how it works in a real market. I’m actually a terrible researcher, or maybe I’m a really good researcher, depending on how you put it. My main source of research is to put out a website and see if we get traffic to it, and see if it works. I’ve done that with every single business. I think that one of the trends or wants of humans is that I want to have a steady income stream. The way I’ve grown up as an internet marketer is to always have some sort of income stream that covers my bases. Probably earlier on, I did things that I didn’t necessarily like as much. I did have a part-time job while I was at University. It was a great part-time job; it was a help-desk. I basically got to sit there, and I could write blog entries or work on my businesses and every now and then, a really pretty girl would come up and ask me a question on how to fix their assignment, and I got paid $25/hour to do that. It was a really hard job to quite when you’re 20-21. That gave me my living money, my expenses money. Then of course the card game website also started to give me enough money. The way I did it was have one website or one part-time job very early on making my day-to-day income, and that gave me the flexibility to go, “let’s just build this website, test it, if it makes no money, that’s OK. But we’ll know for sure then.” And that’s very much how the proofreading business came about. I had the card game website working, I had my part time job, so I was making whatever I needed at the time, to get by and not ever have to worry about money. Then, I could put the proofreading business out there and it started to get clients, and it started to surpass anything else I’d done, so I actually sold the Magic site, and the proofreading site grew. I made it more automated so it didn’t require much work from me. Then obviously the spinoff from that is blogging. I could blog for as long as I like, without having to worry about making money. I wasn’t necessarily satisfied, like I wanted to continue to grow and make more money, as the proofreading website was like a salary, and I really wanted to break six figures. However, that being said, I had the stability there, and I could throw the blog out there to see if it worked, which it did. The same goes for all the other businesses, like the English School I had; I did that and it was a tutoring service, basically. It was one-on-one, and small groups of English tutoring, and I did that myself initially, and then I started to hire people. I noticed there was actually quite a bit of demand, and not much one-on-one tutoring services in Brisbane where I lived, and I went as far as renting office space. While that was happening, my proofreading business was taking over. I was funneling my cash flow into the English business which was draining my cash flow, and I realized from that experience that I don’t want to be in an office, I don’t want to have to hire teachers and deal with people face-to-face. I have the luxury of being able to test that out and actually build an English school because I had a successful proofreading business. That’s been a trend for me, and right now I’m building some software for bloggers, it’s like a plug-in. I’ve got my blog income, and my other income, and having that support, I can do things on a grander scale. I’ve already thrown away $30,000 on development of this software, which is something I never would have done earlier on, but you keep climbing the ladder, and you can risk more for bigger ideas each time you do so. At the beginning, though, it was all about me and my labor, and that’s how it all started.

RW: I seem to remember reading one blog post where you were talking about how the rewards of marketing can pay off. I think you mentioned, too, that you paid off your whole mortgage on your house and the loan on your car so you became debt free, all from your internet business. I think you’re a great person to interview as an example of someone who, through hard work and iterative improvements of business models and what you were doing, could be very successful. How many years after you started running the card based business do you think it took to be able to pay off that debt, and really be financially free? For people making a 5 year or 7 year set of goals, what was the timeline for you?


YS: It’s funny, once you pay off one debt, you go and get another. I’ve got two investment properties, and I’m well and truly in debt again. It seems to be an ever ending cycle. That being said, there certainly was a time that I paid for my car with cash, and had enough money in the bank to get a house. I still got a loan, and I bought another property before paying it all off, which is the smart thing to, apparently, I know when I started the card game website and the proofreading website, and I was the owner of those for about 6 or seven years. That was a much slower growth curve than the next 5 years, and for a number of reasons. I didn’t have the confidence, I didn’t have the experience, I was working a part-time job, I wasn’t choosing the same business models, the internet was smaller, and you’ve really just got to look at examples from all over the place. I’ve had a lot of students and it’s interesting how some seem to have a business within even 3 months and it’s even starting to look like they can make a full-time wage, where some do it in 2 years, and that’s where they start steaming up money. The most important point, in my experience, is always build these businesses to be sellable. For example, the proofreading business sold for six figures, and when that happened, it was a crazy time. I just bought this town house that I moved into, and I bought this new car, I was selling my proofreading business, and launching my first course, Blog Mastermind, all in the space of 3 months. There was a lot of money flying around, a lot of assets being bought. I was doing my first ever launch and closing a deal on my biggest ever sale; that all was great. I got six figures for my business, I then suddenly had another $15,000 a month income stream after I launched my product, I had this car, a house, and I felt like, wow, in three months, everything has sort of come together, and I’m sort of set now. Obviously, though, I want to do more, but I’ve got my home over my head, I’ve got my car, a business that’s bringing in income and I’m absolutely loving it, and I’ve sold off my other businesses and my head is clear so I don’t have to worry about all the different things I’m doing. That happened all in 2007. I sold my card game website in 2004, which wasn’t a lot of money, I think I got about $13,000 for it, which was a lot at the time. Long story short, I wouldn’t want to stick to doing the same thing for five years and you’re not getting a result. I always tell people, in 6 months, if you’re not seeing a positive sign, it doesn’t have to be money, but at least increasing in traffic, some sort of feedback from the market place, whether it’s people emailing you asking you questions or people looking to buy some sort of advertising on your site, or buy your product or whatever it is, those are all the signs that you need to see to keep going. A good example: I just completed an interview with a guy named Scott Valdez who started up a business called Virtual Dating Assistance, and it’s for outsourcing an online dating service. He had some balls; he was living in Argentina, and he quit his full-time job to start this business, and he gave himself 5 months. Within 2 weeks, though, he had this massive positive sign because he had heaps and heaps of press coverage for his idea, because he had too many people coming out and he couldn’t service them because his business wasn’t really set up yet. That’s what you call a very positive sign. Clearly, he ended up, and is still, working 12 hour days to catch up on all the opportunity that’s come his way. Then on the flip side, I coached a student, a private coaching client. She has a blog on women’s golf. She had already been writing it a year and the traffic growth had been quite snails’ pace and she wasn’t making any money. She had a business doing graphic design, so she was safe in that she had her bases covered and could live, but she really wanted to live off something else and have an asset she could sell. This seems like something she loved, she was into golf, and it’s a market you could make some money in, but she was struggling to get traffic. I started coaching her, and it was amazing. It was very hard to get traffic, and just checked into her stats this year, and she’s finally breaking the 200 visitors a day mark, and when we finished her coaching dream, I said, “listen, the only way you’re going to make money from this, by the look of things since we’ve tested everything else, is to do lots more product reviews, and really start getting those search rankings for those golf products for women.” That’s the experiment she’s tested, but she’s been doing this for two years now, and definitely hasn’t had the financial return you’d expect by now, but you can still the growth. Every quarter, she still got another 20 unique visitors a day coming to her blog. When we finished, she was at 100 visitors a day, and now she’s at 200 a day. If she could get 500 a day, she’s got income potential; 1,000 a day, got some definite potential for income, and an asset she could sell. It’s been a lot slower, but it’s slowly getting there.

RW: That’s very interesting. I definitely agree with that. I’ve had a product that I just thought would be killer, and it was just pure silence, and I probably lost $10,000 on that one idea. I’ve had another product that was just an idea, and I put up a form saying, “If you want this product, let me know”, and had 400 people fill out the form, and it such a random idea, so I definitely agree that throwing something out there and seeing if it does make progress or seeing if there’s a better idea after six months or a year if it’s been going nowhere. The next question is about the principles you work on as a business owner. What are some of the principles that you operate on that have led to your success? You mentioned that you definitely design your business around your personal needs and what you have fun doing, and you don’t like be overly busy or distracted, but do you have a few other business principles that you could share that have attributed to your success?


YS: Well, I’ve just finished writing a report, The Two Hour Workday, which is something new I’ve got coming out later in the year, and it’s been interesting to write that report because at the start of it, I basically summarized my career, and it was how I got to the point of a two hour workday, and were the most important things to me in that process. It came down to three things, and it’s taken some time to bring them all into one business model. I call them the holy grail of internet business or online marketing, whatever you want to call entrepreneurship online, which are obviously you need something that’s got the potential to make income for you, like significant enough, and that’s individual; what kind of money you want to make can depend on what kind of person you are, but certainly you want to meet your goals. I think for most people, if they can make at least six figures, that can change their lives. You want it to be something based on a passion of yours so that you do have motivation to get up every morning and work on it to have that income goal. Finally, this one’s a bit tricky, but you want to make sure you have something leverageable. It can continue to derive income from it without you having to put in 12 hour days. Maybe you put in 12 hour days initially, but there is the possibility for it to become more hand’s off. My proofreading business is kind of a great example of that, because I worked hard to begin with. I was the only person handling the email communication and the marketing. I’d go out three times a week and put out posters. I’d make sure the website was getting optimized for search engines, and I’d have to log in every day, multiple times, to make sure the email was checked and jobs were forwarded to editors and so forth. Once I hired a person, those jobs sort of just evaporated. All I really had to do was check in once a week to make sure any big decisions that needed to be made were being made, but the forwarding of emails was taken away for me, I hired people to put up posters for me, and it became much more simple and much more hand’s off. The problem with that business is that it wasn’t my passion. So the income was there, and I could have grown the business more, and the leverage was there, but I just didn’t have an interest in growing the business anymore because I had no interest in proofreading.  I’d also lost interest in the business as a business, so I wanted to get out of that business. With that card game business, I had a subject I enjoyed at the time, and there was definite potential to grow it, but the income wasn’t really there because it was such a small market in Australia and it would take a lot of work to get it to a big income, so it was again something that wasn’t going to be matching my three goals. With blogging, though, I found that it was something I could do because it’s something I enjoy, I like to write and I like to talk about business. That was an insight, actually, that I’d gotten from business. Seeing the potential for income was surprising. I’d seen people making good money from blogs, but I didn’t realize you could do it so simply. I thought it would be writing four times a day, producing lots of content every day, but I ended up finding a system where I only need to write once or twice a week on the blog itself. Using email marketing and the blog itself, I could actually make quite a bit of money and quite consistently. It obviously became leverageable using that system once everything was in place. There was a bit of work to get everything there, but once the courses were created, the marketing materials were there, it was a lot easier and a lot more hand’s off. Blogging has certainly been the first case that matches that goal for me. And that’s really relevant advice for everyone listening to this: choosing a business model that has the potential to meet those three goals for you in your life, if they’re your goals, make sure you understand what you’re getting yourself into. Some people do want to work 8 hour days, though; some people want that kind of motivation, and so maybe they just want to work really hard and then sell out for a couple million dollars, and that works too. Make sure you can see the model working. I always try and understand the nuances of my business model so that I understand how it will grow and what the key variables are. Then that’s how you can meet your goals.

RW: That’s great advice. Related to those last couple points, I have one last question before the final question. It’s interesting, I’ve read some books on building a business to sell, I’ve read some other books on how to position your business for sale, and I’m wondering what the motivation is to build a business to sell as opposed to building a business that will create steady income for you for the next 30 years. This may be affected by your desire to do something new every 5 years, but I’m wondering what the motivation is on selling your business instead of it being a lifestyle business you would keep forever.


YS: I think you’re right in the “I like to change things every 5 years, roughly”; I don’t know if it’s me, or everyone, to be honest. I think everyone doesn’t like to do something forever unless they’re really, really passionate about it. It’s rare for them to be that passionate and be able to make an income from it. Like, if you love the guitar, and you’re actually in a rock band and making money from it, then maybe that’s the case. But in my experience, having seen how much money I’ve made from the website sales, which I haven’t really talked about, but there were some other websites that I bought and sold later on, and also just knowing that most of the wealthy people in existence today got there from the sell-out of a business. You could be running a business that gets by and pays you a salary, pays other people’s salaries, and makes great money, but you never really get rich from it because it’s just meeting its needs and always growing so it always has to reinvest what it makes into the business and the one change to get real wealth from it is at that point of sale. The important point is to consider both. Do you want to do this business and are you willing to potentially do it for a long time, and do you also see that it could be sold in a period of time, and that’s really important for me. It’s one of those things where I’ve had a mix of the types of businesses. Like my blogging business, certainly from the information products and teaching side, is not the best at selling, because a lot of it is tied to my personal brand, and a lot of marketers have this problem. They release products backed on their name, and their brand and their expertise. All of the internet marketers have, Frank Kern, Jeff Walker, Mike Filsaime, Eban Pagan, unless they’re clever about the way they build their business. Like Eban Pagan, he was smart, what he did with Double Your Dating. He’s got David DeAngelo and Double Your Dating as the brand, it’s not Eban Pagan. If you look at Frank Kern, it would be very difficult for Frank Kern to sell his stuff because everything is always him on a video, him writing a product, everything’s him. And that’s fine, because he’ll make one or two million dollars with each of his launches, which is great money, so he doesn’t worry about the sale. If you’re a consultant though, and you’ve written a book, and you do some speaking from the stage, but you’re only getting by making $60-70,000 a year, to eventually have a way out, you could be in trouble there. Unless you start building some kind of unique brand that’s not about your name, you don’t have a great sellable asset, and you may not even be able to sell it if it doesn’t make great money. I’ve got a friend who has an internet marketing consultancy, and this is another great example. He does SEO and PPC marketing for small businesses, and it’s a very service orientated business. It’s a lucrative business that has 12 employees and it’s been a lot of hard work, and he wants to sell it. He realizes for someone as a buyer to come along and get value from it, it’s quite challenging. I think it would have to be very well targeted because they have to be able to plug in what this business does into their existing business, or understand enough about internet marketing to step into that role that the company fulfills. Whereas, if I’m running some sort of service that is completely automated through software, like Aweber for example, the email auto-responder service, there is no personal brand attached to that; there is no information that is proprietary to a unique individual, it’s a service we use, and it’s reliable. I know the owner has a multi-million cash-flow but he hasn’t wanted to sell it, but if he ever did, he’s got an extremely valuable asset there because he has so many users that are dependent on that. You don’t really move away from your auto-responder email service; it’s software, he’s got a team that manages it all, and it’s a great candidate for a multi-million dollar sell-out. That, to me, is a much better business model. You have to be careful, though, because I’ve got great information products out there that have made me great money though $100,000 launches, but  I couldn’t sell those products so much, so it’s been a case of using what advantages and opportunities are in front of you right now, but also think about what you’re doing next. For example, my next product is software based, and not based on my personal brand at all. Whether or not it succeeds, I don’t know, but it will definitely be a much more sellable business. I’m also building it more in that mind-set; I want to build something quite significant that can grow and that has that many-to-many aspect to it that doesn’t depend on me. It will leverage my contacts in the market, so it is in my industry, so there’s that sort of mixing. For the Two Hour Workday course, it’s going to be challenging to sell that if I don’t have other people who are also creating content. You can do it, make an information business based on someone else’s brand, but I think it’s better to be, especially now where I’m at, to really focus on sell-ability mainly because I want that sort of outcome from it. It would be different if I was just trying to get by, but I am looking for that multi-million dollar break out because I think it would be a great experience, and I’m looking for that “set for life” sort of thing.

RW: That was something I wasn’t really planning on asking you, but I was curious to ask just based on your previous answers. The final question I have is what your number one most valuable piece of advice would be if you could give it to somebody listening to this on, or your own blog or within your own training program, that you think is so valuable to the long term success of business owners and being a CEO or could save you so much time? What one piece of advice would you give that you value at $30,000, and that had someone given it to you when you first started your blogging or proofreading business would have saved you at least $30,000?

YS: This might sound ironic, since I talk about not taking on employees, but I still believe that taking on some people to help you is a mandatory requirement. It depends on where you’re at, for example, if you’re a CEO there are many people working at your company and this advice is a bit falling on people who already do this, but if you’re just starting out as an entrepreneur, it’s important to understand your strengths, and that’s very critical. This is important, too, for companies who already have lots of employees, as well, especially as the owner. Understand what you want to do in the business that would leverage your talent, your skill, and your passion. Then make sure that everything else that is new and profitable is handled by other people. Obviously that depends on how big your business is, and what it does, but in my case,  most of the business I’ve done, certainly the technical requirements and the designs requirements should be done by other people, and are. The email and customer service should be done by other people, and certain other specialized skills, like copywriting for sales materials is usually done by other people. You can take this quite far, too, and have video done by other people; you can have product creation done by other people. Rich Schefron from Strategic Profits has done a really good job to translate what was originally posted on business under his personal name to an educational and marketing company not based on his name, instead based on his system that he’s perfected using webinars. Yes, he does have to create the webinars, or whoever the main expert is has to create the webinar, but it’s all plugged into a system that has been tested and tweaked so they can just drive lots of traffic through it and always get a return on their investment. To make that work, though, they have to have the copyrights and stuff, they have to have the technical development in staff and even the product developers in-staff, because the one head of the company cannot be there doing everything in those jobs. They can’t be writing the courses, they can’t be writing the launch emails. They pretty much show up to do the webinar, which is the first point of contact for a customer, but then after that it’s all being distributed by the staff in the business. That’s possible on a beginner scale, too. My business partner in the blogging project, Gideon Shalwick, he’s been building a little team via the Philippines like a lot of other marketers have done in the last year or so, and he’s  got a CEO, video editor, the customer service person, and I think he’s got a tech person. So, collectively, these four employees, who are all full-time, and cost only somewhere from $2-2,500 a month, and they do a lot of the work for him. He still has to record the videos and guide things, but it’s reasonably robust and he gets to do what he really enjoys, which is the strategic thinking and creating the videos and teaching. So, that’s a good example, and a good option now for smaller teams, thanks to the internet.

RW: Right, well that’s a great piece of advice. I’ve never actually looked into using anyone from the Philippines before, but I know that you’re based in Australia, which isn’t too far away, especially compared to America, and I’m actually doing this call with you from Singapore. I know a lot of people who run businesses and have had success with it because they’re education is so high, and their standards for English are so high, as compared to other countries where people learn English, but it’s not quite good enough to write a product or write a blog post, or work with easily over the interview.

YS: You can get some great people there, and a lot of people are using the Philippines. It’s a big trend in at the moment, and in internet marketing in particular.

RW: Great. I definitely want to thank you again. We’ve interviewed some top selling authors, we interviewed Rand Fishkin from SEOmoz, but this has been one of my favorite interviews because I think between Frank Kern and yourself, you both come off as the most genuine personalities in the internet marketing space, which is why I think I connected with your blog a few years ago. I really appreciate the advice you give through your blog, and I know that tens of thousands (or more) also appreciate all the energy you put out giving that business building advice, so I just want to thank you again for doing that for so many years, and thank you again for your time here today. For those of you listening to this call, if you go to and check our Yaro’s blog, he’s got thousands of posts there, a lot of them very in-depth and informative. He also gives some case studies and check-lists of things you can do to build your business faster and to be better at internet marketing. Also, check out on the right-hand side of his blog, he has something called “Yaro’s Blog Profits Blueprint”. That blueprint is 100% free, and if you don’t do anything else on his blog, check out the blue print, which costs you nothing to download. Thank you again for your time today, Yaro, and for all of your advice you provided during the call.

YS: No problem, Richard, and thank you for having me, and for all that kind feedback. I appreciate that.

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